Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 26 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1129



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: One question answered, another asked...
FW: Census time: the Active Campaign Census
RE: TML Traveller Roster
Re: Traveller Player Roster
Re: TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass
Re: Traveller Player Roster
Midwest TML gathering
Re: TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass
Traveller Player Roster
Re: unsubscribe traveller mailing list
TML Roster
Re: Traveller Player Roster
Re : Traveller Player Roster 
Re: Traveller Player Roster
Re: TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass
Re: Traveller Player Roster
Update to TML Roster
Re: Update to TML Roster
Re: Traveller Player Roster ( was RE: Census time: the Active Campaign Census)
Re: Update to TML Roster
Update on the Traveller Player Roster
Re:  TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass
Re: Personal income tax for PC's (somewhat long)
Re: Update to TML Roster
Re: Traveller Player Roster
player roster
Contact list
Traveller Player Roster 
Re: TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass
Location of "The City"
Re: Plant and Animal Builder raw data (longish, gearhead warning)
Pyramid Question
Re: Pyramid Question
RE: Traveller Player Roster ( was RE: Census time: the Active Campaign Census)
Re: Taxation

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:11:41 -0400
From: "Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: One question answered, another asked...

- ----------
> From: Pete <j_pete@bellsouth.net>
> On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:06:12 -0400, "Thomas Schoene"
> <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >----------
> >> From: Pete <j_pete@bellsouth.net>
[snip]
> >> Did this remind anyone else of Falkenberg's Legion?
> >
> >Actually, I thought is was strikingly like the plan for Hammer's
Slammers. 
> >But look how that turned out...
> >
> I've only read one of the books in that series and I wasn't impressed.
> It wasn't the first one so that may have been part of the problem.
> That was also when I started getting tired of David Drake's writing
> style.
> 

Very likely.  The first book of short stories is IMO vastly better than the
later books in the same universe and better than anything else Drake's
done.  It's much more informed by his Vietnam experiences, I think, and has
a lot more plausibility than the later books.  Even so, there are only a
couple of stories that I would call excellent, and "Hangman" (the longest
of the short stories) is the only one I really reread.

Tom Schoene

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:28:12 +0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: FW: Census time: the Active Campaign Census

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com] On Behalf Of
Skaran@bigpond.com
Subject: Re: Census time: the Active Campaign Census

My location        : Perth, Westen Australia
Campaign milieu    : Heretic
Campaign ruleset   : TNE
Campaign health    : Pretty Good
Group has met since: 1997
Frequency          : every fortnight
Number of players  : 4
Number of referees : 1
E-mail contact     : Skaran@bigpond.com
Web page     :  http://www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran
Description: An alternate history of the region around Sol using the
Solomani Rim maps with different stats

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:43:57 -0500
From: "David Reed" <de.reed@xolutions.net>
Subject: RE: TML Traveller Roster

>Format: Name, City, State/Province, Country, email

David Reed, Houston, TX, USA, de.reed@xolutions.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:31:31 -0400
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster

Traveller Roster, eh?  Okay, I'll de-lurk to bite at this one...

John Macek.  Located in Baltimore... well, Columbia... well, actually
Elkridge {but people have heard of Baltimore, and it is my place of
birth} 8^) ... Maryland, USA.
Been a Traveller player on and off since '77.  

going back to lurk mode...
John

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:50:06 EDT
From: AveNelso@aol.com
Subject: Re: TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass

David Nelson, York, PA, USA, avenelso@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:04:23 PDT
From: "Gary Miles" <garyglennmiles@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster

I'm in:

Gary Miles, Des Moines, Iowa

Travellin' since 1977...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:16:00 -0500
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net>
Subject: Midwest TML gathering

What about the idea of having a Midwest TML gathering at one of 
the numerous cons?

Possible Suggestions:
Archon: St Louis in October
Winter Wars: Champaign IL, in February
Spring Offensive: Peoria IL, in April
Demicon: Des Moines, in May
Inconjunction: Indianapolis, in July

these are just the ones I recall the rough dates on
any other ideas?

Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf
ADD/ADHD Advocate
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:31:34 -0400
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net>
Subject: Re: TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass

At 09:50 AM 9/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
>David Nelson, York, PA, USA, avenelso@aol.com

This is causing me to de-lurk!  Another Yorker on the list!

Kurt Feltenberger, York, PA, USA, kurt@blazenet.net

Kurt Feltenberger
kurt@blazenet.net
Morrow Project Campaign http://www.sol-3.net
WT-L Support Pages http://www.sol-3.net/wt-l

"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,
      may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"
~Stephen Decatur

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:35:39 CEST
From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
Subject: Traveller Player Roster

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_4f9df35f_77c8a840$438d6a6c
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Patrik Holmstrm, Uppsala,, Sweden, glappkaeft@hotmail.com






______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Return-Path: <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
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From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
To: eris@pcola.gulf.ne
Subject: Re: TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:26:56 CEST
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I thought I'd send this off-list (avoiding swamping the TML).

Patrik Holmstrm, Uppsala,, Sweden, glappkaeft@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:52:18
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe traveller mailing list

At 07:15 AM 9/26/1999 EDT, you wrote:
>unsubscribe traveller list

You're sending this to the wrong place!

Did you save the instructions you got when you subscribed?  

Here are the instuctions, from the TML FAQ:

To leave the TML, send a message to
traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com and in the body put the lines: 

   unsubscribe traveller
   unsubscribe traveller-digest

This will ensure that you are no longer subscribed to either real time or
digest mode.

If you have an RFC2368-compatible browser (Netscape 2+ or Microsoft
Internet Explorer 4+) you can use the links below: 

Unsubscribe from Traveller
Unsubscribe from Traveller-Digest 
- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:47:53 -0600 (MDT)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@shell.rt66.com>
Subject: TML Roster

Merrick Burkhardt, Albuquerque, New Mexico (merrick@rt66.com)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:09:00 -0500
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster

Is anyone keeping track of these?

Joseph R. Dietrich, Evansville, Indiana (on the banks of the mighty Ohio).

Ciao,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:04:48 +0100
From: "Peter  Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re : Traveller Player Roster 

>It occurs to me that it would also be a good thing to compile a
>roster (name and location) of our fellow TML Travellers

Peter Scarrott, Leicester, GB,

Peter
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so  zh+ vi-
      And life is harsh and rarely fair.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the
shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser
gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to
die."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:10:56 +0100
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster

Mark Watson; Farnham, Surrey; UK
- -- 
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:22:37 -0700
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass

Kiri Aradia Morgan, San Francisco, CA, USA, tiamat@tsoft.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kiri Aradia Morgan            93!              Thou Art God...
tiamat@tsoft.com  

the current fair warnings:

"No matter what, expect the unexpected.  And whenever
possible, BE the unexpected."     -- Lynda Barry

"Honest to the point of recklessness, and self-centered
 in the extreme."            -- Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia

"God sent me to piss the world off!"  -- Eminem 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:55:17 -0700
From: "Shawn Campbell" <shawn@electricstitch.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster

Shawn Campbell, Bothell, WA USA

Playing MegaTraveller every Tuesday night... set in the year 1483 in the
Daibei sector. 350+ years after Hard Times with no Virus. 5 players, 1
referee.

Shawn Campbell
shawn@electricstitch.com
IMTU tc+ tm+(++) !tn t4 ru+ ge>+ !3i+ c+ jt au+ st+ ls(+) pi+ ta he+(++)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:44:45 -0500
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Update to TML Roster

On 09/25/99 at 12:09 PM,  "Joseph R. Dietrich"
<yikes@evansville.net> said:

>Is anyone keeping track of these?

I am, Joe and want to put them on the web somewhere so folks looking
for "Fellow Travellers" can find them.  I have about 70 at this
point, and intended to post the list back to the TML later today so
everyone can double check their info.  I wasn't intending to flood
the list with this, so if Rob (or anyone) thinks it should go
offlist that's fine by me.  You can still send directly to me if you
want on the list.

Thing is, I got to thinking about it and having the email address on
the list and having the list available for download is an invitation
to spammers.  I can strip the emails back off, but that lowers the
utility.  I could add a poison pill to all the email addresses to
make them unusable unless you remove the pill, but as easily as I
can put in the pill it could be stripped out.

What's the list's opinion, am I worrying about nothing? Would a
poison pill in the addresses be "good enough" protection?

Eris
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:59:50 +0100
From: Mark Watson <markw@antares.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Update to TML Roster

>
>Thing is, I got to thinking about it and having the email
>address on
>the list and having the list available for download is an
>invitation
>to spammers.  I can strip the emails back off, but that
>lowers the
>utility.  I could add a poison pill to all the email
>addresses to
>make them unusable unless you remove the pill, but as easily
>as I
>can put in the pill it could be stripped out.
>

If possible, have an "email" button next to each name, and get the email via
cgi. That way there's no single doc with a list of names and emails (though
it's not difficult to generate one, a spammer *that* desperate for a list of TML
email addresses might well have information we'd be interested in ...)

Mark
- -- 
Mark Watson, markw@antares.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:00:55 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster ( was RE: Census time: the Active Campaign Census)

In a message dated 9/26/99 8:31:22 AM !!!First Boot!!!, 
jamstar@accesstoledo.com writes:

<< Seth, you any relation to Jimmy Kimmel, from 'Win Ben Stein's Money'? >>

Nope, though I wish (It's cool being related to celebrities).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:31:57 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Update to TML Roster

At 02:44 PM 9/26/99 -0500, you wrote:
>On 09/25/99 at 12:09 PM,  "Joseph R. Dietrich"
>What's the list's opinion, am I worrying about nothing?
>Would a
>poison pill in the addresses be "good enough" protection?

	I'm already on enough spam lists ... the folks at the FTC, IRS, and
US Postal Service are probably ruing the day I found out about their
spam reporting addresses (for general, "get rich quick," and pyramid
or chain letter [==felony] respectively). 

	Back to the question at hand I *believe* most spammers use various
automated tools to grab emails, so a poison pill (preferably random
and different for each address) should suffice. Or just print the
username with spaces, as in 

	"g o l d e n d j @pcisys.net"

- -- Chaos reigns within. 
      Reflect, repent, and reboot.
   Order shall return.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 99 14:18:09 -0500
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Update on the Traveller Player Roster

On 09/25/99 at 12:09 PM,  "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> said:

>Is anyone keeping track of these?

I am, Joe and want to put them on the web somewhere so folks looking
for "Fellow Travellers" can find them.  I have about 70 at this
point, and intended to post the list back to the TML later today so
everyone can double check their info.  I wasn't intending to flood
the list with this, so if Rob (or anyone) thinks it should go
offlist that's fine by me.  You can still send directly to me if you
want on the list.

Thing is, I got to thinking about it and having the email address on
the list and having the list available for download is an invitation
to spammers.  I can strip the emails back off, but that lowers the
utility.  I could add a poison pill to all the email addresses to
make them unusable unless you remove the pill, but as easily as I
can put in the pill it could be stripped out.  

What's the list's opinion, am I worrying about nothing?  Would a
poison pill in the addresses be "good enough" protection?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:25:26 PDT
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:  TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass

Boris J. Cibic, Toronto, Canada, Played since 1984
  Referee ready to dump players and enjoy life in retirement as a player.  
Alternatively, looking to start IRC game which would not be too taxing on 
time in the cold months ahead.



  "Smart people believe only half the things they hear.  Intelligent people 
know which half."

Contact:  kafka47@hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:46:37 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Personal income tax for PC's (somewhat long)

...
>Isn't the Serendip Combine from that game Galactica?

  TCS, actually, although some of my fighters might be able to 
imitate ones from the movie of that name, even if they are only 
single-seaters :>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:10:39 -0700
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Update to TML Roster

> a spammer *that* desperate for a list of TML
> email addresses might well have information we'd be interested in

Very good point, and I really like the e-mail button idea. I hate editing my
addresses and stuff on e-mail, so the poison pill idea (never heard it
called that) is less inviting, but a viable option. I won't complain either
way, I just hope some folks are a little closer than England or San Fran! ;)

Three mile driveway w/ three gates and a creek, all dirt, another eighteen
or so to "town", about a third dirt road, do I play much? Heck no, I go buy
groceries once a week, maybe see a movie or two a year. But the lake is
beautiful in the morning, and the wildlife better than TV.
////////////////////////////////////////
Akella 0609 C654474-6 S kk+ hi++ as+ va+ dr+ da+ so@ zh- vi++  A523
IMTU tc++ ?t4 ru@ 3i+(-) c+ jt au@ st- ls+ pi+ ta@ he+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:47:36 +0100
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller Player Roster

Ewan Quibell, Brighton, Sussex, GB

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:54:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: john michael bush <saxguy@u.washington.edu>
Subject: player roster

My first post here incidentally...

John "Blow a hole in the hull" Bush, Seattle, WA, USA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:09:39 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Contact list

Can anyone on the following list who is still on the TML please drop me a
line with regards to your previous contributions to BITS/CORE products?

Thanks

Dom (BITS webmaster)

Michael Barry
Craig Berry
Douglas Berry
Peter Brenton
David Burden
Timothy Collinson
Stuart L Dollar
Dave Elrick
Harold Hale
Ann Hindson
Barbara Lucas
Peter Newman
William Prankard
Rob Prior
Steve Quick
Paul Radford
Hans Rancke-Madsen
Joseph E Walsh
John Wood
Jeff Zeitlin

- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------
                 BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.
 http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.
BITS and CORE are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.
All rights reserved.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:02:13 -0500
From: "Clint Williams" <aremis@amaonline.com>
Subject: Traveller Player Roster 

Clint Williams;  Borger, Tx
world's largest inland refinery, and on the hit list (.5mt) for
Twilight:2000 for that reason (ok, that is offtopic but with the
Space:1999/Twilight:2000 coments earlier it seemed apropriate.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:37:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: TML Traveller Roster, 1st pass

Robert Prior, Hogtown, Great White North <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:37:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Location of "The City"

>Anyway, I imagine that the moniker isn't uncommon in areas dominated by a
>large, prominent urban area.  Mention The City in this area, and everybody
>assumes that you're discussing San Francisco.

Come, come. Everyone knows "The City" refers to Toronto. Just watch the
series "The City" on CTV (10 Tuesdays, unless they've moved it).

OTOH, in the financial world "the City" refers to London. This is obviously
context-dependent.

TV series -> Toronto
Finance -> London
Good living -> San Fransisco

What else can we add...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:37:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Plant and Animal Builder raw data (longish, gearhead warning)

>A long time ago, Rob Prior mentioned that he'd like some software to
>help him create flora and fauna for his games.
>	Creating animals is relatively easy ; existing rules cover that
>reasonably well. The following info may be of use in detailing animals
>and plants.

Actually, I mentioned that I was writing some software that would create
detailed plants and animals (something more detailed than the existing
systems do). This type of information is exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks.



My priorities right now are:

1) Mark labs. (This will be here until June, too.)

2) Resubmit my Pyramid article on Echiste (Scott recieved it, but can't
find it now).

3) Design ships & vehicles for Doug's book.

4) Upgrade GT Shipyard (the starport enhancement).

5) Finish GT Metator (which will include the animal data).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:37:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pyramid Question

It looks like the Echiste article I submitted in March has vanished, so
I'll have to resubmit. Scott thinks he probably rejected it (on the grounds
that it's not in the slushpile or the accepted pile) but he can't remember.

So, a question for the community:

Would you like to see detailed worlds published in Pyramid? I'm talking
about a full-length article detailing the entire system (as per First In)
with text writeups on culture, government, trade, ecology, and so forth, as
well as a number of adventure hooks.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:47:31 -0700
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Pyramid Question

>So, a question for the community:
>
>Would you like to see detailed worlds published in Pyramid? I'm talking
>about a full-length article detailing the entire system (as per First In)
>with text writeups on culture, government, trade, ecology, and so forth, as
>well as a number of adventure hooks.


No, I wouldn't like to see that.  I would LOVE to see that!!!  Things like
that are ALWAYS handy!

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|                 http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/              |

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:45:13 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Traveller Player Roster ( was RE: Census time: the Active Campaign Census)

Jesse DeGraff, Milpitas (suburb of San Jose), California, USA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:49:59 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Taxation

William F. Hostman writes:

>>>	Navy and Marines: Cr500 per sophont per year assessed to the
>>>planetary government, to be raised by any means. Cr 100 to the Imp Navy,
>>>Cr100 to the Imp Mar Corp, Cr 100 to the Sector Navy, Cr 100 to the
>>>Subsector Navy, Cr75 to the scouts, Cr25 to adminitration and overhead.
>>
>>That's a rather large chunk of the planetary production (13% if average
>>GWP is assumed to be Cr10,000/citizen) sliced off for the Imperium before
>>the planet's own needs are addressed. A heavy burden. It also makes for a
>>humongous Imperial army and navy (and the scouts and marines won't be so
>>very small either). The Imperium IYTU appears to be a much larger factor
>>in everyday life than that of the OTU.
> 
>Actually, I assumed something more akin to KCr20-26 per annum, 

If you go by _Striker_ figures, the very richest worlds will have GWPs in
that range, but the average is a lot lower (though IIRC a bit higher than
Cr10,000). If you extrapolate from the price lists (food and lodging), you
get pretty close to Cr10,000.

>...but yes, a heavy burden... most worlds will draw it, however, from
>combined corporate and other sources.

It's irrelevant how it is collected. It still comes out of the total
production, leaving so much less to be shared out by the inhabitants.

>Also, Imperial Army units have a major advantage economically - they
>generally trickle right back to the planetary economy... Since, IMTU,
>the "Imperial Army" is the MT/COACC style "Headquarters" units, with
>no actual imperial troops, but simply combined staffs for the local
>worlds armies. 

If the Imperial Army is just a staff, it won't use the huge sums you
mention, and if they do use them, it dosen't go back into the economy.
It's not the money itself that's a burden, it's the goods the Imperial
Army buys with the money that is deducted from what is available to
the locals.

>Also, the GWP I suspect will average out to some KCr30-50 on most worlds...
>forget how I originally figured that, but I based it upon skilled labor 
>making Cr1200 to Cr2000 per month. Figure unskilled labor to be some
>Cr500-700 per month (support SS 2 or 3). Basically, at Cr250*Soc, soc 7
>being average, upkeep of soc means the average is Cr1750 per month...
>(See MT Players Manual, p30) 

The upkeep of soc rule is incompatible with the basic price list. Either
one or the other must be wrong. Since the upkeep of soc rule IMO is broken
in other ways (at the low end of the scale a difference of one in social
level means a doubling of upkeep while at the high end it means less than
10%  --  if it was the other way around it would make more sense), I prefer
to go with the price list. Which, incidentally, is what _Pocket Empires_
did too.

>Economics are one of the areas most affected by the different versions base
>assumptions... MT with it's soc costs is VERY different from all other
>editions in that respect... Average incomes MUST be higher than the CT
>KCr10 per year... 

Well, either that or the soc costs are seriously broken. As I said, I
believe the second option to be the correct one.

>besides it should be KCr13 per year for skilled laborers based upon ship
>pay... and retirement pay is often going to be much less than annual pay...

I was under the impression that starship crew earned far more than KCr13
per year. If it really isn't more than that, it fits quite nicely with a
dirtside average of KCr10. A 30% bonus to starship crew is not at all
unreasonable.

As for retirement pay, I agree 100% with the _Murphy's Rule_ that
considered it ludicrous that a retired admiral and a retired ensign
with the same number of terms served would have the same retirement pay.
That rule is broken too... 
 
>Also, IMTU, the important part of a Noble's Fief is the stock holdings...a
>sector duke needs draw very little from his subjects to fund a lavish
>lifestyle... he gets trickle-up from almost every interplanetary endeavor,
>and sector wide lines he gets 4% of the profits... And typically, most
>nobles will answer directly to the subsecotr duke, so, they get 0.1-0.4% of
>the subsector's profits. THen again (as Hans probably remembers) IMTU,
>nobles have significant duties and priveledges... like imperial guarantees
>of Trial by Jury, and at least 1/2 that jury being nobility (often locals,
>tho)..
 
Unless you believe that the character generation rules imply that 3% of the
population are Imperial nobles, the nobles don't matter much in this
connection. You can fund the lifestyle of dozens of nobles with what one
navy vessel costs.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        'There was a man,'  remarked Captain Eliot, 'who was sentenced
    to death for stealing a horse from a common. He said to the judge,
    that  he  thought it hard to be hanged for stealing a horse from a
    common  and  the  judge  answered,  "You  are not to be hanged for
    stealing  a  horse  from  a common,  but that others may not steal
    horses from commons." '
        'And do you find,' asked Stephen, 'that in fact horses are not
    daily stolen from commons? You do not!'

                        --- "The Mauritius Command" by Patrick O'Brian

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1129
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